Reflections from an Industrial Ecologist

In this episode of Weaving Voices, Rebecca chats with:

• Dr. Roland Geyer, an industrial ecologist, professor and author.

Here are some highlights:

Industrial Ecology

• Rebecca introduces Dr. Roland Geyer and the concept of industrial ecology as a discipline that studies how material and energy flows through the economy in the hopes of reducing environmental impact.

• Roland explains that he views the 1960s as the beginning of the modern environmental movement.

Eco-efficiency

• Roland introduces the concept of eco-efficiency as potentially getting the world on a more sustainable path by reducing the environmental impact of production without compromising economic growth.

• He explains why eco-efficiency has not worked as the sole solution due to the global economy more than doubling in the last 30 years, increasing carbon emissions by 60 percent in that time.

The Porter Hypothesis

• Roland describes The Porter hypothesis, created by Harvard business school professor Dr. Michael Porter, as an idea that aims to expose the conflict between environmental protection and economic competitiveness as a false dichotomy.

• Rebecca shares an example of Roland’s argument by introducing the idea of pollution prevention: reducing pollution while also saving operation costs.

Life Cycle Assessments

• Roland explains that Life Cycle Assessments (LCAs) are a product of the modern environmental movement.

• Rebecca notes that while LCAs measure the environmental impact per unit of something, it doesn’t tell us the total environmental impact of that entity.

• Roland and Rebecca acknowledge the limitations of LCAs, such as not being able to compare products, or not including the option to avoid buying anything physical in the assessment.

• Both Roland and Rebecca emphasize that the goal is not to increase renewable energy sources, but rather decrease the use of fossil fuels.

Investing in Sustainability

• Rebecca points out that while sustainable products are more of a monetary investment for companies, over time the investment becomes more worthwhile and this ensures that everyone involved in production is adequately compensated.

The Importance of Labor

• Roland acknowledges that although labor has no environmental impacts, it would be valuable to design labor back into the supply chain and guarantee living wages.

• He continues to argue that ensuring everyone in a supply chain is paid living wages will actually help economies.

• Rebecca brings up the piece rate and claims that it's what suppressed wages and what garment workers in Los Angeles are fighting against.

Rural Economic Development

• Rebecca says that the government should be investing in rural economic development with the goal of decentralizing the larger system.

• She also highlights the importance of solidarity and an international labor movement that does not just focus on the U.S.