The Economic Waters We Swim In

In this episode of Weaving Voices, Rebecca chats with:

• Jason Hickel, an economic anthropologist, professor, and author.

Here are some highlights:

Introduction to Weaving Voices

• Rebecca introduces the show with an explanation on the excess of production and consumption in the clothing and textile industry. She briefly explains the negative impacts such as prioritizing monetary profits at the expense of devastating environmental and social impacts.

• Rebecca briefly introduces the episode's guest, economic anthropologist and professor Jason Hickel.

• Rebecca explains what Weaving Voices will be about; a resource for better understanding textile systems3, traditions, economic philosophy, and climate science.

• More about Rebecca’s experience as an author, educator, and weaver and her nonprofit organization, Fibershed.

From Feudalism to Egalitarian Democracy

• Jason explains how peasant farmers were exploited by wealthy landowners in nations across Europe and how that led to a revolutionary uprising where the peasant overthrew feudalism in favor of a more egalitarian and democratic society in the late 1300s.

• Both Rebecca and Jason describe the improved living conditions for commoners and the decrease in ecological and environmental destruction that came with the shift to a more democratic society.

• Rebecca and Jason explain the process of enclosure.

• They continue to explain how enclosure led to the rise of capitalism in Western Europe.

Animism

• Jason and Rebecca describe “animism” as a philosophy in which humans view non-human beings as kin.

• Rebecca continues, stating that animism was an obstacle for early capitalists who put profit over ecological impact. So, they introduced a new philosophy which cast nature as the “other” and inferior to humans in order to combat the moral barriers that came with exploiting nature.

• This “othering” of nature led to the mainstream acceptance of “othering” certain groups of people such as Indigneous members and women and provided justification for colonization and the slave trade.

The Rise of Capitalism

• Jason defines the core objective of capitalism as generating and accumulating profits rather than meeting human needs.

• Despite capitalism producing a surplus of goods, some basic needs are still unmet in countries like the US.

• True capitalism equals an ever increasing quantity of profit.

• Why capitalism needs enclosure, colonization, and explanation to thrive.

• Jason highlights the need to shift to a post-capitalist economy.

The Threshold for Sustainability and Overconsumption

• Rebecca delves into the research on what it would take for humans to live sustainably.

• She continues to explain that the extreme overconsumption of material production is driving the ecological crises.

• Jason adds on that the crisis is being driven mostly by a small handful of rich countries.

Growth-ism

• Jason explains how capitalism is the only system in human history that requires perpetual growth in order to stay afloat.

• He continues talking about the inevitability of recession and economic collapses in such an unstable system as capitalism.

• Rebecca sheds light on the fact that it is impossible to meet ecological objectives while growth is our society’s main priority.

The Nine Planetary Boundaries

• Rebecca and Jason explore the planetary boundary framework as one of the most important developments in ecological science over the past few decades.

• Rebecca elucidates how that framework affects textile systems.

The Political Response

• Jason introduces BECCS, Bio Energy with Carbon Capture and Storage, a technology that politicians rely on as the solution to the ecological crisis.

• He continues to explain why BECCS is not a viable solution.

The Solution to Growth-ism

• Jason proposes that there needs to be a shift in how humans view growth. He explains that it is possible to flourish without growth.

• Jason gives examples of other nations with less growth but more quality of life.

• Rebecca and Jason establish the framework for what de-growth would look like.